Know Thyself: How to Beat Stress and Become a Better Marketer

In this episode of WeMarketers Podcast, Andrew welcomes Senior Researcher Vladyslav Dombrovskyi from the Institute for Behavioral Studies at American University Kiev. They discuss the importance of self-awareness for marketers, practical techniques like setting clear aims, motivation, learning through practice, and reflection.

Vladyslav introduces exercises such as morning pages, the concept of a ‘Day Without Fits,’ and adapting Shabbat traditions to improve internal connection and decision-making. Learn how observing your own behavior without judgment can lead to significant personal and professional growth.

____________

Connect with Vladyslav Dombrovskyi:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dombrovskyy/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/vlad.dombrovskyi/

____________

Connect with Andrew Demianenko: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-demian

Key Takeaways: How to Beat Stress and Become a Better Marketer

1. Setting Clear Aims: To grow professionally, it’s essential to have clear goals. This involves deciding whether you want to grow vertically (advancing in your current field) or horizontally (expanding into new areas).
2. Motivation and Learning: Understanding why you’re motivated in a particular area helps in learning and growth. Learning involves finding good sources, practicing what you learn, and reflecting on the outcomes.
3. Reflection and Self-Discovery: Reflection is crucial for learning and growth. It helps you evaluate what works and what doesn’t, allowing you to improve continuously.
4. Emotional and Rational Decision-Making: Both emotional and rational parts of the brain play roles in decision-making. It’s important to align them to avoid internal conflict.
5. Practical Techniques for Self-Discovery:
   • Morning Pages: Writing down your thoughts first thing in the morning helps build a connection with your internal self. It’s about being an observer and listener to your own thoughts.
   • A Day Without Fits: Spend time doing what feels right in the moment, following your gut feelings without heroic actions or distractions.
   • Shabbat Practice: Disconnect from electronics and focus on spiritual or personal growth activities to recharge and reflect.
6. Importance of Practice: Consistency is key. Just like going to the gym, practicing self-reflection and connection with your internal self regularly leads to better results.
7. Reducing Anxiety: Disconnecting from constant distractions and news can help reduce anxiety levels and improve mental clarity.
8. Changing Habits: Sometimes, change happens simply by paying attention to your behavior and its impact, rather than forcing discipline.
9. Observation Over Control: Instead of trying to control or ignore yourself, observe with interest. This approach helps in personal growth and self-improvement.

Transcription

[00:01:06] Andrew: Hello and welcome to the Marketers Podcast. Today, I have the pleasure of welcoming my good friend Vladyslav Dombrovskyi to the podcast. Vladyslav is a Senior Researcher at the Institute for Behavioral Studies at American University Kiev, where he explores the fascinating intersection of psychology, economics, and marketing.

[00:01:28] Andrew: In this episode, we’re going to dive into how we can become better marketers by knowing ourselves. Vlad unveiled the curtain that he will share some techniques that help us really make a step forward. Vlad, I’m super excited to have you today.

[00:01:44] Vlad: Hi Andrew. Thank you for inviting me. But let’s lower expectations a bit. I don’t have any secret techniques, although I have some working techniques.

[00:01:55] Andrew: This sounds great. Can you share a bit about your background and how your journey led you to explore the intersection of professional growth and psychology?

[00:02:04] Vlad: As for my background, it’s mixed. I used to be a university professor for many years, then I worked as an IT manager for many years, and now I’m back in academia. So, it’s a mix—teaching students, managing people. And then I would also like to add one more thing on top of all that—psychology. Psychology has been my lifelong passion and hobby. There is something similar in all those areas—teaching, managing, psychology. I realized that for me, it’s all about helping people discover themselves, overcome some difficulties and struggles, and become the best version of themselves.

[00:02:57] Andrew: You have significant experience in teaching people. What practical advice do you have for marketers who really want to grow as professionals in their field?

[00:03:09] Vlad: Yeah. The first piece of advice is quite obvious: it’s better to have clear aims. So, what do I want to achieve?

[00:03:18] Vlad: Like I want to grow my career, so to say vertically.

[00:03:22] Vlad: Or maybe I want to grow horizontally.

[00:03:27] Vlad: The next one is motivation. Why does it make sense to me? Maybe I just like this particular area—advertising or social media marketing. I really like it. I feel it. And then, after that, learning is quite simple and complex at the same time. You find good sources, you learn something, then you have to practice. And the last step is always reflection. So, you have to reflect on the results, on the outcomes.

[00:04:00] Vlad: Okay, I’ve learned this new skill, or this new approach, or this small tool, then I just write down: did it work for me? What was good, what was bad? What can be improved? And so on. And this kind of cycle will inevitably help you learn any skill.

[00:04:20] Andrew: You mentioned two types of growth, so like vertical growth and horizontal growth. How can we decide for ourselves where to move?

[00:04:29] Vlad: It’s worth taking a pause, just to stop for some time. Maybe taking a vacation, or spending some weekends, two days doing nothing—taking a walk or whatever you like to relax.

[00:04:47] Vlad: And it helps you calm down, clear your mind, get rid of all thoughts and anxieties, and so on. Another big part of this is having contact with yourself. For me, it feels like you’re trying to look inside because there is this internal place where we also live.

[00:05:10] Vlad: You have an infinite number of opportunities. This is where you are now, and then there are multiple pathways. How to choose?

[00:05:14] Vlad: There are some rational things to consider. A career advisor can help you by saying, “Okay, Andrew, please think about this. Please think about that. Consider that.” But at the end of the day, when you take a decision, you also have this feeling inside. And this feeling can say, “Maybe this decision is very rational,” but I don’t know—I don’t feel like doing it. And so, strengthen this connection with your internal self by looking at other people, but always checking with how you feel about that.

[00:05:41] Vlad: Do I want to do this? Do I feel like that? Because we have two systems internally. The first one is quite logical and rational, and for this part of us, the world can look very simple.

[00:06:13] Andrew: But at the same time, we have another part, which is emotional. And it’s so important because if my emotional part doesn’t want to invest energy into my rational decision, I will end up struggling with myself.

[00:06:35] Andrew: Great point about finding a connection with your internal self. Do you have some practical techniques in mind?

[00:06:42] Vlad: Oh yeah. Oh, yeah, man. I’ve got so many.

[00:06:46] Andrew: This is why you are here.

[00:06:48] Andrew: Yeah, you can skip all the parts that were at the beginning and just go here. The main stuff is here.

[00:06:59] Vlad: Okay. Yeah. So seriously, the main thing that works for me is morning pages. The idea is from a book called “Morning Pages.” The first thing in the morning, you just take a notebook, a pen, a pencil—whatever you like—and then you focus on just writing what is inside.

[00:07:29] Vlad: For instance, okay, I’m sitting at my desk, I hear some noises outside my apartment, I’m a bit tired… Uhhuh, what next? I keep thinking about something. You keep thinking and you just write it down.

[00:08:05] Vlad: Then some thoughts.

[00:08:11] Andrew: Something is bothering me. Right?

[00:08:13] Vlad: Yeah.

[00:08:13] Andrew: The point is that you are writing down exactly what you feel here and see right now, not what you slept like last night, right?

[00:08:23] Vlad: You can. So the main point here is about your attitude towards this exercise. So to say, imagine that you’re a listener.

[00:08:30] Vlad: You just listen. You are here to listen to what is inside.

[00:08:37] Vlad: Because if you pause, if you stop for a moment right now and just try to listen to what is inside you, you are a listener.

[00:08:46] Vlad: You are interested. You are very curious about what is going on.

[00:08:51] Vlad: So do you have anything to write down?

[00:08:58] Andrew: Yeah, for sure. I can say it’s some calmness. It’s some excitement about hosting this podcast and listening to you. Yeah. Yeah. So something like that, right?

[00:09:12] Vlad: Exactly. And then you just don’t try to make an effort. It’s not about that. You are just listening and focusing on writing down what is inside. And that’s it. You can do it for 15 minutes, for 10 minutes, for 20 minutes. So you can just set a timer and spend some time writing down what is inside. The main point about this exercise is to be an observer. To be a listener. You just listen. You just observe. And your focus is inside.

[00:09:53] You don’t have any other purpose. You don’t want to try to solve all your problems? No, it’s not about that.

[00:10:02] Vlad: And if a person keeps doing it for, I don’t know, let’s say seven days or two weeks, probably you will notice that there are some periods when you write down things, words which are really important to you. You just feel it. It can be very minor things or they can be very major, very important.

[00:10:30] Vlad: Very big. But the main criteria are how you feel. For example, I can say to you, “I love you, Andrew.”

[00:10:42] Andrew: That’s…

[00:10:44] Vlad: I really like you. I really like you, but…

[00:10:47] Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

[00:10:47] Vlad: No, that’s just words. And compare that when, for example, you or I would say something similar to a woman or man we really love. Like you feel it.

[00:11:01] Vlad: The same words, but they feel very differently. And this exercise is exactly about that. So what you are practicing, you are writing down and constantly checking—is it what really is going on inside me, or am I trying to be clever, or am I trying to think about that, or am I trying to solve it, to come up with a brilliant solution? So that’s what you focus on, and it helps you build this connection. And then to sustain this connection, to maintain it and improve. So that’s like for me personally, for me, that’s the number one exercise.

[00:11:43] Andrew: It’s such a powerful thing. For sure, I’m thinking about something that worries me, but I have never written this down, and now I understand that writing this down over the course of one month, for example, it’ll help really to understand what I’m thinking about and maybe to find my real path where I want to move.

[00:12:07] Vlad: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:08] Vlad: And don’t trust my words. Don’t trust me. Challenge my words. This is just an idea you have.

[00:12:16] Vlad: One of the things that is important about human beings is that we have to experience some things. They are not about rationally understanding. We have to experience them. So don’t trust my words 100%.

[00:12:33] Vlad: Just try it.

[00:12:35] Vlad: On your own, whether it works for you or not.

[00:12:39] Vlad: If not, okay, no problem. There are so many other ways how to do that. If it works for you, it’ll be your experience.

[00:12:48] Vlad: And you can always say, “I do this. Not because some random Vladyslav said this, but I keep doing this because it works for me. It feels good.”

[00:12:58] Vlad: It feels like I have this connection. I strengthen it. Yeah. So that’s also to our listeners. Don’t trust my words.

[00:13:08] Andrew: I will name this podcast “Don’t Trust Vlad.”

[00:13:10] Andrew: Yeah, don’t trust me. Just practice. Just try on your own. If it works for you, awesome. If not, okay. There are other techniques.

[00:13:20] Andrew: I’m curious what else is on your list.

[00:13:22] Vlad: Mm-hmm. Another one, which I really like, I personally use with some breaks, unfortunately. But I try to use it as frequently as possible. I call it a day without fits—without fits, I mean without any heroic actions. How it looks like: we’ve got many different emotions, like anger, happiness, sadness, and so on. However, there are also some things which I’m not sure whether we can call them emotions, but it feels like something in our body. The first one: have you ever noticed that you want to get close to some things? For example, I really like the sea, right? Or I really like forests, and when I see a good one, I want to visit it, go there.

[00:14:18] Vlad: And that’s what I’m talking about. Or you have something very tasty and you want to go there, grab it, and eat it. And so there is always this feeling—I want to get closer. I want this thing. And also, there is another feeling which I can describe as I want to stay away from something. I don’t like it. I want to be as far as possible from it.

[00:14:45] Vlad: It can be some person, it can be some place, it can be something dangerous or something disgusting, right? So the idea about this day without fits, without heroic actions, events, and so on. So you wake up in the morning, you have to decide whether it is the whole day or six hours or whatever. And the only thing you do is ask yourself, “What do I want to do?”

[00:15:09] Andrew: Okay.

[00:15:10] Vlad: Is there something that attracts me, which I want to get closer to? Maybe it’s your kitchen. Okay, no problem. Go there.

[00:15:22] Vlad: If you feel like having some cup of tea or coffee or whatever, no problem, just grab it. If it’s okay for your health, right? Then you had your breakfast. What’s next? Maybe there’s something you want to do? Go somewhere, have a walk, see some coffee, see your friends. Maybe.

[00:15:55] Vlad: The only question is, you’re constantly again checking yourself. You see, probably something similar with the previous one, right?

[00:16:01] Andrew: Yeah.

[00:16:03] Vlad: Yeah.

[00:16:03] Vlad: And you check whether you want to get closer to something or you can, for example, have a walk around your city and then you have a crossroads. So you have an intersection, you don’t know where to go. Again, stop there and ask yourself, “Maybe I don’t know—I want to go there.” Just go there. If you see some restaurant or store or whatever place that you feel you want to get closer to, just go there. And in this case, you also practice this internal, I don’t know how to call it—gut feeling.

[00:16:43] Andrew: Gut feeling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:45] Vlad: Yes. And in such a way, you practice this muscle again.

[00:16:49] Vlad: If you, for some reasons, don’t have this connection or you lost it at some point in time because it happens.

[00:16:57] Vlad: It happens.

[00:17:00] Andrew: So that’s the second one. Do you feel attracted to this idea or would you like to be as far as possible from this idea?

[00:17:07] Andrew: It sounds to me like training in a gym. You mentioned training this muscle, and this is exactly what I was thinking about. By practicing this exercise, you train your inner self to follow your real self—your decision-making, whatever it will be related to: career, learning, development, personal life, or whatever.

[00:17:23] Vlad: Yeah.

[00:17:23] Andrew: Or career choice, as you asked earlier, right?

[00:17:32] Vlad: Or career choice, as you asked earlier, right?

[00:17:35] Andrew: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, it sounds really powerful, but again, of course, we need to practice this as…

[00:17:44] Vlad: Sure.

[00:17:45] Andrew: This is exactly what I’m thinking about—that this is not something that we can do easily. This is something that we need to do constantly.

[00:17:55] Andrew: Once a week, twice a week. Like I’m going to the gym three times per week. Right? And I have some results. The same must be here.

[00:18:04] Vlad: Exactly. Exactly. Unfortunately, right now, so we live both in Ukraine, right? There are some limitations. There are some things which we just cannot do, or they are dangerous to do. And I noticed that my connection, my connection to my internal self or whatever, it’s just gotten weaker because I used to do so many different things that helped me sustain and maintain this connection, to strengthen it. But now I just cannot do that because, for instance, outside our city, it’s not that dangerous, but it’s not as nice a place as it used to be. And yeah, I noticed that as long as you practice it, it works. Then you stop for some reason—it doesn’t matter, maybe you had to stop. Circumstances changed, and it just gets weaker, and then you don’t feel connected with yourself anymore. So, yeah. Very good point. Practice.

[00:19:13] Andrew: In our conversation before this podcast, you mentioned one technique that was particularly interesting for me. It’s following Shabbat.

[00:19:23] Vlad: Ah, Shabbat—it’s very close to a day without fits, really. Probably the main difference for me, and again, I’m sorry, I’m not very good at Shabbat’s tradition. I just really like this idea that people really spend a day focusing on some spiritual things, building a connection to God. And I decided to try something similar, but I changed it a bit, and my focus is that, okay, I can try just for six hours, switch off all the electronics—no screens, no laptops, whatever. And the main point is I spend this time with myself. I can read books—that’s perfectly fine. I can spend time thinking about something important to me. Again, I also encourage you to use paper and pen because it helps so much. If we just think, it’s very confusing; we can keep repeating the same thoughts. We can start going in circles, but when you think somewhere outside of you, it’s like your brain has a mirror which you can look at and see what is going on. You can write down all your thoughts, all your worries, all your anxieties, and if you try to repeat them, you look and, oh, okay—it’s already there. What’s new? So it helps you. Right? So the whole idea of Shabbat is really nice. I really like this idea of spending several hours or a day or whatever period you can afford with your own, without electronics, without computers, laptops, internet. You just try to recreate this spiritual place to focus on listening to yourself, reading some books. And giving yourself basically a break. Just give me a break.

[00:21:33] Vlad: So that’s how I would explain it.

[00:21:35] Andrew: I have practiced something similar, but not on a large scale like disconnecting for the full day from any devices. But this is something that really occupies my mind because in this world of constant distraction, it really becomes a problem. We are constantly checking our phones. We are sticking to our mailboxes and so on, and I understand how much time and energy it takes. That’s why this idea of totally disconnecting for, um, six hours, 12 hours, 24 hours—it’s absolutely possible, and I believe it’ll uncover much more power inside us.

[00:21:52] Andrew: By the way, I can share my personal practice. Five months ago, I had open heart surgery, and right before this, I completely disconnected from any kind of news, despite the fact that I live in Ukraine. I have no idea what is happening here. When I hear explosions, I know about what happened from my friends or some people on the street. But I don’t read about it. I don’t bother my mind about this constant flow of news. And I noticed that my anxiety level became lower.

[00:22:41] Andrew: But I don’t read about it. I don’t bother my mind about this constant flow of news. And I noticed that my anxiety level became lower.

[00:22:54] Vlad: Extraordinary. I’m thinking about exactly the same. I also have some issues with anxiety, and living in Ukraine doesn’t help at all to manage it, that’s why yeah, I decided to unsubscribe from any analytics or whatever—it doesn’t matter. No, I’m done with it.

[00:23:09] Vlad: While I was listening to you, I also thought about this question which we started from—okay, I want to be a good specialist. I want to be a top marketer. I want to be extremely successful. Right? And you guys told me that, okay, we will cover some ideas on how to become more professional and why knowing yourself is important, right? And still, I don’t know this magic trick or top secret on how to do this. But maybe we, or I, can summarize it as practicing listening to yourself and observing yourself. So that’s the answer to the question—how can I know myself? To yourself, observing yourself. This idea is not unique. It’s not new. Probably this idea is, I don’t know, 2000 years old—maybe Buddha started talking about that, about the observer, about meditation, mindfulness, and so on. But it really shows how our brain works because there is no inside me or there is no Andrew inside you. There is no part of the brain which is activated when I wake up and start going on, I’m doing my business or whatever. Not, it’s our brain works as some patterns of activation areas, activated and deactivated, activities grow and fall and so on. So it’s about parts, different parts which interact…

[00:24:45] Vlad: It’s a complex system, but there is no center which is responsible for everything. No. And maybe the observer or listener is just another way how our brain functions, and maybe it’s just a bit more efficient and effective in the way when we try to build a connection to ourselves, right? So it’s just some other way how our brain functions—observing and listening. And inevitably, a lot of things will arise to the top inevitably, because it cannot be like, there is silence, there is emptiness, and nothing, no. If someone tries to practice meditation, it’s just a constant flow of thoughts. It just goes on and on. And so observing yourself is a very good way of learning yourself, knowing yourself. And if you are capable of reflection, for example, both of you can have a reflection after this podcast.

[00:26:00] Vlad: Thinking about it as if you worked as a third person and then analyzing: okay, yeah, the start was like that. And then probably this, I really like this part. Probably I should work more on that, and so on. So you think about yourself and your performance as if you are a third person watching yourself. And it helps because it creates distance. This distance helps you to stay not interested, so to say. It’ll be more rational analysis. Yeah. So listen to yourself. Observe yourself. That’s like the short answer on how to know yourself.

[00:26:59] Andrew: It’s an amazing conclusion for our episode. I have read a book by Shunryu Suzuki. He shared that there are two mistakes that people can do. The first one is trying to control others, and the second one is to ignore others. So what should we do? We should observe with interest. So we can apply this for ourselves as well. Don’t try to control ourselves, don’t try to ignore ourselves—just observe. This is really great. And yeah, in this way, we can become better versions of ourselves.

[00:27:41] Vlad: While I was listening to you, I was also thinking about changing yourself. People have some bad habits which they would like to get rid of. And as a rule, we think about that, that we should put pressure on ourselves. Like it’s only about a decision, discipline, and then we have to forward and we will inevitably succeed. It’s very hard actually to change. It’s very hard to start something and keep doing it, especially something. The paradox is—sometimes in order to change, all you have to do is just to notice your behavior, to pay attention to what you do.

[00:28:29] Vlad: I don’t know how it works really. It’s surprising, but if I just start paying attention to, for example, how I talk to people without any intentions to be calmer, kinder, more understandable, understanding, and so on, then paying attention to their reactions, it’ll make me change gradually because I will start seeing the connection between what I’m saying, how I’m saying, and how people react. And I can notice that some of their reactions are nice and I like them more. And maybe then I will focus more on saying some things in a certain way, right? Or for instance, I can start paying attention to how I feel each and every day. And I will notice that after lunch or in the evening, I feel not very good. My brain is foggy. I don’t have enough energy, and I don’t like this feeling, and it can influence my decision. So, oh, okay—what can I do? Because it feels, eh, uncomfortable and I’ve got at least two options. I can ignore it or I can change. But the reason for change is not logical because the reason for change is because it feels bad. I don’t like this feeling. I want to change it. And that’s stronger motivation. So again, I don’t know how, I’m sure, although there is a mechanism and it’s explained in some level book, but paying attention to yourself and depending on where your focus is, you can really start changes which you want.

[00:30:27] Andrew: So many things resonate with me today, as always in conversations with you. Thanks a lot for joining today’s episode and for sharing such great things. What is the best way for our listeners to connect with you?

[00:30:43] Vlad: Oh, wow. You can find me on LinkedIn. We can probably add in YouTube notes my Facebook account. So yeah, just drop me a line, and I will be happy to share my knowledge to help.

[00:30:57] Andrew: Thanks a lot for joining me on this great Sunday day and bye-bye.